Re: Re: free speech
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Fri May 30 2025 07:51 am

Also, a lot of things are defined as illegal just because it suits the government, but that does not mean they are immoral. For example, tax evasion in tax heavy regimes is an act of self-defense but they will try very hard to convince the population that it is bad because it is illegal.

It's also depriving the body politic of money that should be used to
provide for the common good, which is why it's bad.

That would only be true if we accepted that the government has a legitimate claim to authority, which is debatable.

ie. do you think it is ethical for a political party that got in power with 23% of the votes to build infrastructure which is clearly not needed while politicians and contractors divert 50% of the budget of each project to their pockets?

When people condemns tax evasion they do so based on the idealized model of what the State is and what it does represent instead of what the government *actually is* and how it behaves in practice.


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Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: MRO to Foriest Jan Smith on Mon Jun 02 2025 03:01 pm

Is it wrong for me to have a 'slant' of prejudice against people of color because of my life's experiences? I'm pushing 50 and the experiences keep coming and are still occuring.

No, it is not wrong. We all have our life experiences. A whole pack of them beat up my little brother in downtown Richmond when he was a teen-ager. My little brother would never hurt a fly.

It was just blatant evil...

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Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: MRO to Josh Bailey on Mon Jun 02 2025 07:52 pm

Not all of this happened in Wales specifically though? Wales is politically separate from other parts of the UK in terms of Wales having its own Government and Parliament as a devolved constituent country. We have healthcare in Wales that is even more free than what you can get in England.

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Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: Gamgee to Josh Bailey on Mon Jun 02 2025 08:56 pm

I'm forced to have 'British' as my nationality as legally it is correct. However i have the right to state my ethnicity as Welsh as that is legally recognised and also biological fact as i am nativly from Wales. One day an Independant Wales, Scotland, England and a unified Ireland will happen and we will all be happy and free.

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Josh Bailey wrote to Gamgee <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: Gamgee to Josh Bailey on Mon Jun 02 2025 08:56 pm

I'm forced to have 'British' as my nationality as legally it is
correct. However i have the right to state my ethnicity as Welsh as
that is legally recognised and also biological fact as i am nativly
from Wales. One day an Independant Wales, Scotland, England and a
unified Ireland will happen and we will all be happy and free.

You really should learn how to quote some of the message you are
replying to, so that there is some context available to help others know
what you are referring to...

Sure, you can state your ethnicity all you want, and I didn't say you couldn't. But you *ARE* from the U.K., and you don't get to "identify"
as to where you are from.. It's just a simple fact, and not up for
debate, nor a matter of opinion.

I don't know much about the odds of those 4 nations all becoming
independent, but I don't think I'll hold my breath waiting for it to
happen. In fact I'd bet a lot of money that it *won't* happen... ;-)

Anyway, welcome aboard. I have Scottish/Welsh ancestry myself, although
my family tree has been traced back to my ancestors' arrival in the
mid-1600's in what is now Massachusetts, USA, and I therefore have no
problem "identifying" as American. ;-)



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Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: Josh Bailey to MRO on Tue Jun 03 2025 04:37 pm

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: MRO to Josh Bailey on Mon Jun 02 2025 07:52 pm

Not all of this happened in Wales specifically though? Wales is politically separate from other parts of the UK in terms of Wales having its own

i'm sure all kinds of things happen there.

they have stop and search right? that's a violation of rights. they shouldn't stop you and search you without a good reason.

healthcare in Wales that is even more free than what you can get in England.

*free
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Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: Gamgee to Josh Bailey on Tue Jun 03 2025 09:28 pm

I don't know how to quote tbh on here so i won't until i know how lol.

I'm ethnically Welsh and Wales is a country so i may be in the UK physically and legally a citizen iw ould never say i was from the UK. It would be like saying i was from North America instead of saying Canada, or USA or mexico.

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Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: MRO to Josh Bailey on Tue Jun 03 2025 09:27 pm

You don't need to pay for prescriptions in Wales or Scotland unlike England where you have to.

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Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: MRO to Foriest Jan Smith on Mon Jun 02 2025 03:01 pm

Is it wrong for me to have a 'slant' of prejudice against people of color because of my life's experiences? I'm pushing 50 and the experiences keep coming and are still occuring.

Until someone has worked with a group of blacks and been the minority, or sat in a lunchroom being the only white person and heard the word Ngr spoken more than I can count. In my opinion, they have no opinion. Racism is not a one way street. If I don't have to go into Brown Town, I don't.

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Josh Bailey wrote to MRO <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: MRO to Josh Bailey on Tue Jun 03 2025 09:27 pm

You don't need to pay for prescriptions in Wales or Scotland unlike England where you have to.

Learn how to quote when you reply.



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Quoting Foriest Jan Smith to Jimmylogan <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: jimmylogan to Foriest Jan Smith on Tue May 27 2025 08:29:29

But on that same note I also don't CARE if they're being forced to
take it down. People like that should feel unwelcome to have those opinions, in my opinion.

I'll never be mistaken for a moderator, but I don't seem to be able to
follow your conversation. Your reply doesn't really contain any context
for me to grab onto.

Have a great day!

... Great minds think alike; small minds run together

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Quoting Josh Bailey to Mro <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: MRO to Josh Bailey on Mon Jun 02 2025 04:15 pm

I do not identify as British or being from the 'uk' ewww. I am Welsh
only and we have freedom of speech more than any other country,
especially America and that is the truth in my humble opinion. Diolch
yn fawr

The key words are 'your opinion'. Not neccesarily a correct opinion, and
not neccesarily a humble opinion. Of course, we all think our own
nationalities are better than others don't we?

So I said, "Yes Miranda, Wales is a part of the United Kingdom". Then
she said, well yes they do trample free speech, don't they.

Croeso

... Fieri dresses like The Hamburglar suffering a midlife crisis.

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Quoting Josh Bailey to Gamgee <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: Gamgee to Josh Bailey on Mon Jun 02 2025 08:56 pm

I'm forced to have 'British' as my nationality as legally it is
correct. However i have the right to state my ethnicity as Welsh as
that is legally recognised and also biological fact as i am nativly
from Wales. One day an Independant Wales, Scotland, England and a
unified Ireland will happen and we will all be happy and free.

And one day this may come to pass, but until then ~ You are from the
United Kingdom.

Have a great day!

... "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that" - HAL

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Quoting Josh Bailey to Gamgee <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: Gamgee to Josh Bailey on Tue Jun 03 2025 09:28 pm

I don't know how to quote tbh on here so i won't until i know how lol.

I'm ethnically Welsh and Wales is a country so i may be in the UK physically and legally a citizen iw ould never say i was from the UK.
It would be like saying i was from North America instead of saying
Canada, or USA or mexico.

You are a constant source of amusement.

Thanks!

... A feature is a bug with seniority.

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Quoting Josh Bailey to Mro <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: MRO to Josh Bailey on Tue Jun 03 2025 09:27 pm

You don't need to pay for prescriptions in Wales or Scotland unlike England where you have to.

Educate me.

Who exactly does pay for prescriptions in Wales and or Scotland? I
don't think they just appear on trees after the prescription is
written. Do you plant them and then pick the produce? Wait, maybe
someone else pays for them...

Have a great day.

... Great minds think alike; small minds run together

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Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: Josh Bailey to Gamgee on Tue Jun 03 2025 10:33 pm

I don't know how to quote tbh on here so i won't until i know how lol.

To start, have you tried looking at the help in the editor you're using?

Nightfox

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Cougar428 wrote to FORIEST JAN SMITH <=-

Quoting Foriest Jan Smith to Jimmylogan <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: jimmylogan to Foriest Jan Smith on Tue May 27 2025 08:29:29

But on that same note I also don't CARE if they're being forced to
take it down. People like that should feel unwelcome to have those opinions, in my opinion.

I'll never be mistaken for a moderator, but I don't seem to be able to
follow your conversation. Your reply doesn't really contain any
context for me to grab onto.

Yup, this seems to be a common theme with the noobs lately. Hopefully
they can learn how to quote sometime soon.



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Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

It's also depriving the body politic of money that should be used to
provide for the common good, which is why it's bad.

That would only be true if we accepted that the government has a legitimate claim to authority, which is debatable.

ie. do you think it is ethical for a political party that got in power with 23% of the votes to build infrastructure which is clearly not
needed while politicians and contractors divert 50% of the budget of
each project to their pockets?

When people condemns tax evasion they do so based on the idealized
model of what the State is and what it does represent instead of what
the government *actually is* and how it behaves in practice.

I'd claim that the claim to authority is valid, but grift, while
damaging isn't a reason to deny the claim.



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Foriest Jan Smith wrote to jimmylogan <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: jimmylogan to Foriest Jan Smith on Tue May 27 2025 08:29:29

But on that same note I also don't CARE if they're being forced to take it down. People like that should feel unwelcome to have those opinions, in my opinion.

You didn't quot what I said, so I assume you are talking about
a Nazi flag?

If not, then what?

If so, you might disagree with it, but do you agree with them having
the legal right to believe and say what they want?



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Re: Re: free speech
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor on Wed Jun 04 2025 05:13 pm

I'd claim that the claim to authority is valid, but grift, while
damaging isn't a reason to deny the claim.

It is easy.

In a modern nation-state it is understood that the legitimacy of authority comes from the fact they represent the interests of the people, who delegates power in the government. I don't agrtee but let's follow with the argument.

If a government does NOT represent the interest of the voters then you cannot say they are using the power the people delegated on it as intended. If they are outright abusing such power and not representing the people then they don't get to claim they work with the authority of the people and therefore nobody must take their ethical claims seriously.


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Arelor wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

@MSGID: <6842C68A.37989.dove-general@palantirbbs.ddns.net>
@REPLY: <6840E135.1714.dove.dove-gen@realitycheckbbs.org>
Re: Re: free speech
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Arelor
on Wed Jun 04 2025 05:13 pm

I'd claim that the claim to authority is valid, but grift, while
damaging isn't a reason to deny the claim.

It is easy.

In a modern nation-state it is understood that the legitimacy of
authority comes from the fact they represent the interests of the
people, who delegates power in the government. I don't agrtee but let's follow with the argument.

If a government does NOT represent the interest of the voters then you cannot say they are using the power the people delegated on it as intended. If they are outright abusing such power and not representing
the people then they don't get to claim they work with the authority of the people and therefore nobody must take their ethical claims
seriously.

I would go one further.

If the government is acting against the interests of the nation, and
by that I specifically mean its people, then it is *treasonous* and
should be treated as such.

A government that treats its people as hostile, has not only lost its legitimacy, but its right to continue. The people would be right to
treat it as an enemy.

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MRO wrote to Josh Bailey <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: Josh Bailey to MRO on Mon Jun 02 2025 01:23 pm

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: MRO to Foriest Jan Smith on Mon Jun 02 2025 03:01 pm

Free speech or the world will collapse!

you're in the uk. what do you know about free speech

Wow! MRO, you often (okay, USUALLY) post things I do not agree with. But in this instance....

TOUCHE!

Well played Sir! Well played!



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Josh Bailey wrote to MRO <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: MRO to Josh Bailey on Mon Jun 02 2025 07:52 pm

Not all of this happened in Wales specifically though? Wales is politically separate from other parts of the UK in terms of Wales
having its own Government and Parliament as a devolved constituent country. We have healthcare in Wales that is even more free than what
you can get in England.

---

So.... there's "free" and then there's "more free?"

Fascinating.


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Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: Weatherman to MRO on Sat Jun 07 2025 03:05 am

MRO wrote to Josh Bailey <=-

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: Josh Bailey to MRO on Mon Jun 02 2025 01:23 pm

Re: Re: Re:free speech
By: MRO to Foriest Jan Smith on Mon Jun 02 2025 03:01 pm

Free speech or the world will collapse!

you're in the uk. what do you know about free speech

Wow! MRO, you often (okay, USUALLY) post things I do not agree with. But in this instance....

TOUCHE!

Well played Sir! Well played!

dude you sure got some balls to talk about not agreeing with what i post.
i still got the screenshots of that little girl picture you posted in irc on bbs-scene years ago.
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Not all of this happened in Wales specifically though? Wales is politically separate from other parts of the UK in terms of Wales
having its own Government and Parliament as a devolved constituent country. We have healthcare in Wales that is even more free than what you can get in England.

So.... there's "free" and then there's "more free?"

Fascinating.

That actually isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Here in the US, you
are more free in some states than you are in, say, California, and even in
some cities vs. Chicago or NYC.

I am reading what he says with that in mind.


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